Curse

Tainek · Sep 02, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I was wondering about what is considered more effective for Balanced Spiking (Ha, GvG)

Standard Frenzy Sin

(Golden, Horns, Falling, Twisting, AoD, Frenzy, Dark Escape, Rez)

Or a Standard Axe W/E Spiker

so far i see:

Assassin: Better for backline spiking, and better for suprise, also seems to have more damage potential in the spike

Warrior: Less vunerable to damage, and more DPS when not spiking

JR · Sep 02, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

GvG:
The Warrior can compress more damage into a shorter space of time, and isn't as screwed by things like Guardian or Ward vs Melee. Also has far more durability to spike targets that cause you to be somewhat extended.

If you run assassins it is to harrass the opponents base, not spike at the flag stand.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 02, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

GvG:
The Warrior can compress more damage into a shorter space of time, and isn't as screwed by things like Guardian or Ward vs Melee. Also has far more durability to spike targets that cause you to be somewhat extended.

If you run assassins it is to harrass the opponents base, not spike at the flag stand.

QFT. Assassins are quite weak in 7v7 situations. They're main advantage is their mobility, which isn't really THAT helpful in 7v7. If you're going for a VoD build or you want to force them to split or harass their runner, the sin would be good.

However, in a 7v7 adrenospike build (which is what it looks like), then go warrior all the way.

Tainek · Sep 02, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

GvG:
The Warrior can compress more damage into a shorter space of time, and isn't as screwed by things like Guardian or Ward vs Melee. Also has far more durability to spike targets that cause you to be somewhat extended.

If you run assassins it is to harrass the opponents base, not spike at the flag stand.

Interesting, But wouldnt AoD as/more effective for over extending? (pop in, spike, pop out?) , the warriors more hardy, but has to deal with the punishment of running there and back (which may cause the monks to have to extend to heal the warrior)

that having been said, at least warriors cant be shutdown from spiking by a 1/4 sec shatter enchant should they go backline

Seltack · Sep 02, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

If you are worried about getting in to spike on a warrior (no idea why you would be except vs the turtle, and even then with pre-prot and communication it's ok) then go W/a and take death's charge. Spike near targets until deaths is recahrged again then teleport to the backline.

However I don't think that's really needed and you don't take much damage moving in. Plus overextending shouldn't be a problem if the rest of your team moves up behind you/your position is good.

JR · Sep 03, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

that having been said, at least warriors cant be shutdown from spiking by a 1/4 sec shatter enchant should they go backline

Exactly.

shardfenix · Sep 03, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

sprint or rush > dark escape because of lower recharge.

For spiking, shock warrior is better. For a "dummy spike," put one assassin in your build.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 03, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

Interesting, But wouldnt AoD as/more effective for over extending? (pop in, spike, pop out?) , the warriors more hardy, but has to deal with the punishment of running there and back (which may cause the monks to have to extend to heal the warrior)

that having been said, at least warriors cant be shutdown from spiking by a 1/4 sec shatter enchant should they go backline

It's really more about pressure than spike. An assassin can get into the enemy midline or backline for a spike, but the warrior can stay there and keep constant pressure on the midline casters. An assassin has to teleport back constantly to deal with incidental damage and avoid becoming a spike risk.

warriorsmiley · Sep 03, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Assassins are also good for a off target spike. For example you called out a monk while you have that monk getting beat on by casters and warriors the assassin is free to AOD into the other monk and harrass him making him choose either myself or heal the other monk.

DieInBasra · Sep 03, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Or you could just gale the other monk and have your character be useful outside of spikes.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 03, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInBasra

Or you could just gale the other monk and have your character be useful outside of spikes.

While the assassin is not as useful in straight-up fights as some characters, don't confuse a combo on an off-character as being the equivilant of Gale. Someone hit by an assassin combo will degen to death very quickly without help. An assassin combo on an off monk is far more devastating than a Gale, and can force more than one kill even if the monk saves himself.

The biggest downside to assassins at the flagstand is that a lot of passive defenses make them useless. Things like wards and Aegis break their strategy wide open.

timmyw29 · Sep 05, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Things like wards and Aegis break their strategy wide open.

Warrior's Cunning assassin anyone?
...

P.S. Kidding.

Legendary Battousai · Sep 06, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

the assassin build is quite crude for any type of gvg, if I was to run a frenzy assassin, I would put a lot more dps in it:

A good build for that purpose would be: Leaping Mantis, Jungle Strike, Horns of the Ox, Falling Spider, Twisting Fangs, Moebus Strike, Frenzy, Dark Escape/Res Sig.
Combo being:
Leaping Mantis>Jungle>Horns>Falling>Twisting>Moebus>Horns> falling>twisting

A build like this is an extreme ammount of damage which is nearly unhealable without any type of block or evade, compared to a warrior's spike which has a short chain. This longer chain, including knockdowns, more conditions and more damage over time than a shock warrior would be devistating to the other team, but one must keep in mind that it is basically a glass cannon-- without a constant or quick prot spirit, this assassin will die extremely fast, so quickly that an enemy warrior might camp you until you hit your frenzy.

In a battle with wards and aegis? warriors have the same problem, so I think it is unfair to be bias towards warriors or assassins when they can hardly spike with those enchantments/wards up on their target.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 06, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Battousai

In a battle with wards and aegis? warriors have the same problem, so I think it is unfair to be bias towards warriors or assassins when they can hardly spike with those enchantments/wards up on their target.

yes, but warriors can maintain a higher dps without being as vulnerable, even with wards and aegis popping up to slow you down.

JR · Sep 08, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Trash taken out, please let me keep my sanity.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 08, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Trash taken out, please let me keep my sanity.

yeah, I saw that too. JR is a beast of a mod.